FreelanceCampSessions3

Overcoming Ageism

Session 5

Leader - Sam Sjogren

Scribe - Neal Savage

Before starting:  Ageism happens at each end.  One participant is sharing the problem with his father.  Each are experiencing it at each end.

We began as a group of 7, all at the older end of ageism.  A couple more dropped in toward the end.  We started with a round robin intro.

Round Robin Intro

Sam has been defining himself more broadly.  He is thinking that he'll find more work as a contractor than as an employee at his age.

Ken has been doing product management and marketing the past decades.  As an older layed off person, he has found it hard to get exposure to find any opportunities.

Patrick has also been layed off and is selling himself now as providing tech support.

Carol is a facilitator and has clients experiencing ageism and wants to listen to us.

Linda was layed off at 55 and has been doing free lance and consulting since then, 7 years.  She worked for a corporation because she saw how hard her father worked as a small business owner.  She coaches people to have multiple streams of income.  She has been reeducating herself throughout.

Greg has done marketing, analysis, & writing.  He related an experience trying to get a job at a company that had a problem hiring Greg to work for someone younger than himself.  "it wouldn't be a good fit" was the corporate speak.

It was suggested that in a similar situation the Pitch is - I'm collaborative, a team player rather than leadership, which was threatening.

Paula asked whether it was influenced by an expectation that an older person wants more money.  Greg realizes that many people are working for a % of what they earned in 2000.  

Paula is a technical writer.  She just left after an 8 yr job and now freelances.  She has had tremendous luck getting jobs in the past but this is a lot harder.  She is now using recruiters to find freelance projects/jobs.  She is diversifying the type of tech writing she wants to do.  She has "felt things" when looking for a permanent job that felt like ageism.

Ron has been an independent consultant in design for 29 years.  He has not experienced ageism this year but it just may be hidden.  He finds it uncomfortable to be negotiating with someone 20 years younger than him.  He is looking to pick up ideas.

Dave has been a software engineer and freelance technical writer.  He observes how you need to relate to a younger crowd.  He makes sure he has contacts at all ages.  He makes sure he doesn't feel like "an alien" so keeps up to speed.  He overcomes ageism with similar interests.  There are some barriers in corporations if you aren't in the right corporation.  Paula agrees that it's your interests that make a difference.

Randall has been an engineering tech for 13 years and wants to break into solar energy technology.  He has seen companies hire younger installers and not him.  How can he market himself as an advantage?

Neal wants to be more open to working in a different environment, having been lucky walking into corporate jobs, and wants to be better prepared for working in a more flexible freelance/mutli-jp  environment.

Matt is 65 and retired at 62 and is interested to hear of discrimination as he has never experienced it.

General discussion:

Sam:  How much of ageism is the expectations and fears that we bring to the process?

Matt recommends representing yourself, just how you are.  He believes there is a customer for everyone.  There is a match and it's finding the exchange of value that is critical, no matter the age.  Don't adopt an ageism mental set.  It will become self fulfilling.  "I am unique"  ID the market and access it.  The internet is a disruption technology, the game changer.  Use it.

Ron - it's how you live your life.  Think of the 80 yr who thinks and acts like a 26 yr old.  

Sam - some of it is in your head.  If you find yourself in a dysfunctional behavior, you need to identify and change your beliefs to change the behavior.

Matt - if you feel the discrimination, move on.  Someone else will find you terrific.

Greg - "let it go"  Technology tools can be barriers.  Face time remains irreplaceable.  

Linda has found it easier to move between companies than get outside the corporation.

Ron says much of the rejection is just the economy.  Generations X&Y create relationships on line.  Develop relationships and interact on line before you see them face to face.  

Greg - be aware of "caving" and just sending out resumes from your home office.   You have to use relationships and personal networking.

Sam - perhaps hide your age.  Omit older experience and dates of degrees.

A number commented about listing functional experience rather than listing dates.  But others commented that having no dates looks odd.

Ron - As a freelancer, you are showing skill summaries or a portfolio, not a resume.

Linda - has anyone tried pitching to fill a job as an independent contractor rather than an hire?  

L, who joined us, says she has had good experiences doing just this.  

Ron - doesn't look at job boards and posting, but does networking.  Recommends using LinkedIn to find a contact to approach the job posting from the back door.  Having been in business for 29 years, he says that it's networking that does it for him.  He typicall does 4 nights a week of networking.  

Matt- A consultant 12 years.  He never got a contract that was a push, always a pull.  They knew what he liked to do.  He likes to talk about what he loves to do.  Match what their need is to what you like to do.  Don't just chase the bucks.  

Dave and Ron both commented that you need to give at networking, not just expect to get.  Refer jobs and it will come back.  

Paula & Matt agree that only face to face can you show passion and the joy of what you do.

Ron, Matt, Paula - are younger people able to interact off the net?  Use social media to get to people and then follow up.  You can't push over social media.  It has to be pull.  You need to know the tools, to have the language, it's basic.

L, talked about how important a MySpace page is for bands.  But there are rules.  You can't make your MySpace your business page though.  Facebook is trying to expand and 'rule the world"  She uses Wired to keep up to date.

Comment during wrap up of Freelance:  "Over the Hill" does not relate to the local geography, it's a state of mind, that we have to resist.